Make Lemonade

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Posts by Make Lemonade

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  43

  607 vs 587 BC - Cyrus Cylinder

  by objectivetruth in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi everyone,.

  i'm researching 587 vs 607 for the date of the destruction of jerusalem... i'm not doing the research to prove or disprove anything about 1914, rather i'm looking at these dates in comparison to 1948 & 1967.. what is your view on relying on the cyrus cylinder, to accept 607 as the correct date of destruction... i know that there are many other factors.. but i'm trying to keep this portion of my research as simple as possible, so i'm primarily interested in the appropriateness of using the cylinders date of 537 + 70 = 607. one other question.. is it likely that both dates 587 & 607 have their own significance?.

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  Make Lemonade

  marked for further study
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  44

  I went to one of my previous halls remodel today and they did not recognize me...

  by confusedandalone in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i definitely look like a worldly person by jw standards... however i went to my old hall because they are remodelling and they are in the final p[hase.

  it was not on purpose.

  i had bnusiness on the street and happened to drive past.

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  Make Lemonade

  Sorry that happened to you. Happy you could move on without to heavy a burden.
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  36

  Where were you? / How old were you?... during the Ray Franz witch trial?

  by Zoos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was 13yo and largely clueless to what was going on.

  i think i remember hearing something about an apostate being weeded out of bethel but really couldn't have cared less.

  i didn't start getting zealous until a couple of years later.. .

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  Make Lemonade

  I was in my late 20s. Friends who had friends in Bethel told me things like this: "Spanish brothers were secretly partakeing of the emblems". "Some brothers were seeking to start their own religion". "Apostates were teaching that the house to house work was not neccessary". "One of the apostates gave a talk saying that everyone should partake". Without first hand knowledge, I accepted the rumors and trusted that the matter was resolved justly.

  On my list of things to do is to read Crisis of Conscience.
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  84

  Want to know why people accept evolution ?

  by snare&racket in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you have questions about or want to understand evolution?

  it is a difficult concept to communicate and so if it is not explained well , it is understandable that we would dismiss it.. i sincerely want to talk with people who want to learn more or see what all the fuss is about.

  we are all learning and increasing our knowledge all the time and it is good to go over facts with critical eye.. evolution we can discuss, looking at the foundational facts and evidence, one at a time for you to go and check, agree or disagree with and return.. no pressure to accept it, you can decide for yourself, also no mocking etc of what you have to say.. .

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  Make Lemonade

  Snare&racket and Kaik

  Thanks. It is all going onto my list of things to research. We started to watch Cosmos. Interesting when things are brought up that have been commented about on this thread. Mutations in DNA producing white polar bears. Humans breeding dogs for 20,000 years. We are slowly getting an education. We will be checking back here often.

  Vidiot: Can you give some examples?
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  48

  The Apostasy Within

  by Ultimate Axiom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in the latest watchtower (july 15, 2014, page 14, paragraph 10) it says; today, jehovahs people are not often confronted with apostasy within the congregation.

  still, when exposed to unscriptural teachings, regardless of the source, we must decisively reject them.. so, not often, but occasionally jws are exposed to apostasy within the congregation, and they are instructed to decisively reject it.

  as we all know, the vast majority of the apostasy they are exposed to comes from the governing body.. i am meeting up soon with an old friend from the 1970s who i havent seen for decades, who is still an active jw, and who would really like to hear what i think about things.

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  Make Lemonade

  Ultimate Axiom, you said:

  "Thus for all practical purposes, a JW must treat the FDS as if it were an inspired prophet"

  The above is true. That is beyond question. The testimony in the Douglas Walsh trial speaks to the fact that witnesses have to support error. Like a soldier following orders. All of this is unscriptural when we separate the "semantics" out of the equation. Watchtower writers are masters of presenting two conflicting thoughts at the same time. Also, the pattern is to stop talking about a failed teaching for a period of time, then begin to talk about "new light".

  My conviction at this point is to say that many things I was taught in the Revelation Climax book from 1988 to 2006 are simply wrong. A true prophet, that God caused to prophesy, would not be responsible for wrong teachings.

  There, I got that off my chest.

  Thanks for this thread and the opportunity to say it.
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  48

  The Apostasy Within

  by Ultimate Axiom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in the latest watchtower (july 15, 2014, page 14, paragraph 10) it says; today, jehovahs people are not often confronted with apostasy within the congregation.

  still, when exposed to unscriptural teachings, regardless of the source, we must decisively reject them.. so, not often, but occasionally jws are exposed to apostasy within the congregation, and they are instructed to decisively reject it.

  as we all know, the vast majority of the apostasy they are exposed to comes from the governing body.. i am meeting up soon with an old friend from the 1970s who i havent seen for decades, who is still an active jw, and who would really like to hear what i think about things.

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  Make Lemonade

  Ultimate axiom: Teaching that the two witnesses in Rev. 11:3 are the modern day FDS is unscriptural. "I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy"

  Did God cause the GB/FDS to prophesy?

  1925 was not the end of the world as Rutherford and Franz taught

  Pyramidology was taught up to 1928

  1941+ or -, was not armaggeddon, and they should not have "suggested" that people should not have children

  1975 was presented as significant. The publications taught two truths at the same time. When 1975 was not the end they emphasized the disclaimers.

  1914 generation died off

  20th century is over and the end did not come

  All of the above and more show the modern day organization has not fullfilled the definition of being a prophet of God. Rev. 11:3
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  36

  My 45 Minute Conversation With JWs Today

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  as i was saying before the watchtower literature trolley has arrived in my little town.... my wife and i were in town this afternoon and i saw one of my former elder colleagues standing beside the trolley talking to a young man and reading to him from one of their books.

  ray was one my least favourite people - he was everything that is bad about jw elders.

  i went up to them and interrupted and told the man that this is a cult recruitment campaign.

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  Make Lemonade

  cofty:You have to feel good being able to offer help to those you spoke with.
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  48

  The Apostasy Within

  by Ultimate Axiom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in the latest watchtower (july 15, 2014, page 14, paragraph 10) it says; today, jehovahs people are not often confronted with apostasy within the congregation.

  still, when exposed to unscriptural teachings, regardless of the source, we must decisively reject them.. so, not often, but occasionally jws are exposed to apostasy within the congregation, and they are instructed to decisively reject it.

  as we all know, the vast majority of the apostasy they are exposed to comes from the governing body.. i am meeting up soon with an old friend from the 1970s who i havent seen for decades, who is still an active jw, and who would really like to hear what i think about things.

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  Make Lemonade

  wasblind: . Well said
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  84

  Want to know why people accept evolution ?

  by snare&racket in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  do you have questions about or want to understand evolution?

  it is a difficult concept to communicate and so if it is not explained well , it is understandable that we would dismiss it.. i sincerely want to talk with people who want to learn more or see what all the fuss is about.

  we are all learning and increasing our knowledge all the time and it is good to go over facts with critical eye.. evolution we can discuss, looking at the foundational facts and evidence, one at a time for you to go and check, agree or disagree with and return.. no pressure to accept it, you can decide for yourself, also no mocking etc of what you have to say.. .

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  Make Lemonade

  Kaik: I am not sure about any of this. It is an enjoyable to search for answers. I will look into those cultures you mentioned. It is interesting that carbon 14 dating can be checked by other dating methods. Tree rings, ice cores, and sediment deposits. The challenge is not that artifacts exist it is the reliability of the dating. People like Ken Ham are convinced that the dating methods are just wrong. People who are christians and scientist find no problem accepting modern dating methods. They have resolved the problem by believing that the Bible is not literal in Genesis. So this subject contains a variety of answers depending on who you get your answers from. The debate between Bill Nye and Ken Ham was great. The parts I liked best were when they said: "I do not know" or similar.

  Please continue to share the specifics. These become a search on google for me that has yielded results. So far I have not kept up with all the information shared, but that does not pressure me. Little by little the issues are resolving themselves.
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  48

  The Apostasy Within

  by Ultimate Axiom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in the latest watchtower (july 15, 2014, page 14, paragraph 10) it says; today, jehovahs people are not often confronted with apostasy within the congregation.

  still, when exposed to unscriptural teachings, regardless of the source, we must decisively reject them.. so, not often, but occasionally jws are exposed to apostasy within the congregation, and they are instructed to decisively reject it.

  as we all know, the vast majority of the apostasy they are exposed to comes from the governing body.. i am meeting up soon with an old friend from the 1970s who i havent seen for decades, who is still an active jw, and who would really like to hear what i think about things.

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  Make Lemonade

  Ultimate Axiom. Take a careful look at the 4/1/72 pg 197 ariticle you quoted. What is going on with the word prophet. Sometimes it is Prophet. Sometimes it is "Prophet". When refering to Ezekiel it is Prophet without quotes. When refering to modern day witnesses it is "Prophet". WHY?

  Please read the g93 3/22 Why So Many False Alarms? pg. 4

  Footnote: Jehovah's Witnesses, in their eagerness for Jesus second coming, have suggested dates that turned out to be incorrect. Because of this, some have called them false prophets. Never in these instances however, did they presume to originate predictions "in the name of Jehovah." Never did they say, "These are the words of Jehovah." The Watchtower, the official journal of Jehovah's Witnesses, has said: "We have not the gift of prophecy." (January 1883, pg. 425) "Nor would we have our writings reverenced or regarded as infallible." (December 15, 1896, pg 306) The Watchtower has also said that the fact that some have Jehovah's spirit "does not mean those now serving as Jehovah's witnesses are inspired. It does not mean that the writings in this magazine The Watchtower are inspired and infallible and without mistakes." (May 15, 1950, pg 263) "The brothers preparing these publications are not infallible. Their writings are not inspired as are those of Paul and the other Bible writers. (2 Tim. 3:16) And so, at times, it has been necessary, as understanding became clearer, to correct views. (Prov. 4:18)" February 15, 1981, page 19.

  If you search this site you will find abundant quotes from the WT. that support two positions at the same time. We are God's channel of communication, but we are not inspired prophets.

  One book on my list to read is by Don Cameron. Many have quoted him and I believe he deals thoroughly with this subject.